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"A cruel debate opponent" "Pagan blasphemer" "Reverse-iconoclast" "don't get pissed at him b/c he pwn yalls whiney asses"
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Name: Mark Sprengel
Location: Indiana, United States

Miscellaneous meanderings and philosophical ramblings. The title from a spiral notebook I used to jot down my thoughts on religion and other matters some years ago. I like to write, think and express my views on various issues. Robust discussion is welcome.


"Lan astaslem."
I will not submit. I will not surrender.

Monday, April 14, 2008

When defending incompetence results in the same

In a previous post I mentioned a book that I thought would be interesting, that book being The Irrational Atheist: Dissecting the Unholy Trinity of Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens by Vox Day. Since then I've recommended it, along with several other books, to someone who is struggling with their faith and was seeking reading suggestions from Christians as well as non-Christians to help in their study.  The response of one anti-theist in particular brings us to this post.

Shawn Wilkinson had this to say:

Vox Dei’s... Oops, I mean Vox Day’s book wasn’t very impressive. I could fisk it, but there are better things to do. Like cure cancer or fight AIDS than to address the reckless scrawl which appears in his book.

Luckily, many of my complaints are addressed here.

The post that caught my eye at the blog Shawn referenced claimed that Vox Day had contradicted himself, "change[ed] his mind so completely", in fact done so out of mere convenience.

Did you catch that? On page 115 and following, Harris’ technique for correlating social health with Christian conservativism is “strikingly stupid.” Yet just four pages later, it’s a “definitive proof” (and not just “a sign,” as Harris called it). What made Vox change his mind so completely? Simple: he found a way to make the voting record say something that he wanted it to say.

Seems pretty conclusive doesn't it? I can assure you that he does have quotes. My first reaction was to check the PDF I have of the book to see how I could have missed this. What I found was that I missed nothing but being as foolish as this particular reviewer. I say this because not long after page 115 and before reaching 4 pages later and saying it's a "definitive proof" we have this from Vox Day:

But just for kicks, let’s pretend that it is not a measure so ridiculously inaccurate as to be completely useless. Let’s imagine that Harris’s metric really is relevant, that an American voter’s 2004 presidential vote truly is indicative of his religious faith, or the lack thereof, and that statewide criminal statistics are a reasonable measure of an individual’s predilection for immoral behavior. This exercise in imagination is necessary, in fact, because only by accepting his measure at face value and examining it in detail can one fully grasp the true depth of Harris’s exceptional incompetence.

Obviously Vox Day was not seriously considering this a proof as he worked through the numbers. Having not expanded that entry on my first read I didn't know how silly the reviewer was as I developed my first thoughts about the matter. One would think that perhaps after reading the entire entry the reviewer would be acquitted. Unfortunately, it turns out the incompetence of the objection to Vox Day on this point is even worse than missing the stated intent because the reviewer actually addressed that quote from Vox later in the post. Somehow, that individual still came to this conclusion:

The irony here is absolutely delicious: according to Vox, the true depth of Harris’ incompetence is demonstrated by the fact that his methods lead to the conclusion that conservative Christianity promotes good social health! Talk about your shooting yourself in the foot! He starts by setting out to prove that Harris’ method leads to brain-dead conclusions, and ends by showing that the brain-dead conclusion is, in fact, an oft-repeated Christian claim.

Nothing like letting confirmation bias filter one's perceptions and prevent seeing other than what you want to see. Vox was showing that Sam Harris claimed he could find no evidence of better morals due to religious beliefs, yet using his own (foolish) method, one can easily find the "evidence". What this demonstrates is that Harris is not only incompetent with developing a method but that he's also incompetent in even applying his own method.

The reviewer has conceded in his comments section that perhaps he's wrong yet still thinks he has some sort of valid criticism.

In any case, my point in the above post was to document the shift in language. Maybe he does acknowledge that RS/BS is a bogus argument if you press him on the point, but he definitely set up a good quote that seems to say Christianity benefits society. Yes, elsewhere he calls it a stupid and useless metric, but those disclaimers are conspicuously absent from the paragraph that talks about “proving” that red states have less crime. I’m still waiting to see Vox say something that explicitly identifies the pro-Christian conclusion with the disclaimer that it’s a bogus result.

This is ridiculous, apparently Vox Day committed the mortal sin of expecting a reader to remember what was said only 4 pages ago. Worse yet, to remember it when they quote it in their own review/rebuttal.

Vox has explained his intent more than should be necessary here, best summed up with this statement:

I am not saying anything about the social health of Red America at all, I am simply showing a) Harris is incompetent, and b) Harris is really, really incompetent.

Vox also referenced his questions to Sam Harris and the replies he received here.

Now Vox Day is not going to be everyone's cup of tea, so to speak. He doesn't pull punches and this goes for expressing his libertarian political beliefs as well. However, if one is going to criticize his book, at least do so with rebuttals that are not as silly and blinded by bias as this attempt.

I now have to wonder, is Shawn Wilkinson referencing this critic because he's just as incompetent or because he's intellectually dishonest?

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Filed under: Religion -- Christianity -- Apologetics

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Tuesday, April 08, 2008

Barrack Obama - 100 years of *fill in the blank*

Obama and his campaign (along with Hillary!) have been making much of John McCain using the term 100  years in regard to Iraq. The claim being that McCain is ok with war lasting 100 years. But in a case of perhaps hell is seeing a cold front, some in the media are saying that isn't fair. This brings us to Obama being asked about it on the Today Show recently.

I'll start with the following clip (thanks to HotAir).

Now of course this has been edited and it needs to be noted that Obama actually was referring to seeing what McCain had to say on youtube, not to his own remarks on the matter. Some may think that saves Obama from the charge of dishonesty. I say, not so fast.

Let's consider the exchange.

Meredith reads what Frank Rich has to say:

REALLY, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton should be ashamed of themselves for libeling John McCain. As a growing chorus reiterates, their refrains that Mr. McCain is “willing to send our troops into another 100 years of war in Iraq” (as Mr. Obama said) or “willing to keep this war going for 100 years” (per Mrs. Clinton) are flat-out wrong.
Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times

What Mr. McCain actually said in a New Hampshire town-hall meeting was that he could imagine a 100-year-long American role in Iraq like our long-term presence in South Korea and Japan, where “Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed.” (source)

[...]

She then asks Obama, "are you willing to admit that you distorted his statements?" which then has Obama saying that's just not accurate we can pull it up on video. As I noted, if one checks the full Today Show interview, Obama is saying this about McCain's statements not his own, though the above video appears to show otherwise. That doesn't help him though. Let's bullet point the problems.

  • He dodges the actual question.
  • He strongly implies that video will show McCain does favor a 100 year war.
  • He then ignores what he implied about the video of McCain's comments.
  • Finally, he shifts to talking about McCain wanting 100 or more years of occupation, rather than what the question was actually about.

Rather slick that, but still dishonest in my book.

Perhaps some true believers will hold on to the fact that Obama didn't deny he ever said that about McCain, though it be only by shifty evasion and deception by which he manages to avoid that in this interview.

Unfortunately for Obama his entire campaign isn't so glib and comfortable with deceptive language as he is.

on MSNBC, Obama senior strategist David Axelrod said Obama "is not saying that Sen. McCain said we'd be at war for 100 years." (source)

Now watch that video again.

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Filed under: Iraq -- NewsPolitics

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Thursday, March 27, 2008

Global warming - this post is not a joke

It seems I have to explain what is a joke and what is an actual argument on this matter due to a particular twit who doesn't understand the humor that is this previous post and instead claims that an actual argument is being made. So on to a non-joke post about global warming and the controversy surrounding the issue.

A new book is out that has received a very positive review here. A few excerpts:

About a year ago, Canadian environmentalist and journalist Lawrence Solomon began a series of articles in the National Post examining the credentials of and arguments made by scientists and economists labeled “deniers” by various environmentalists, a number of mainstream environmental reporters, and some politicians. Solomon, true to the finest tenets of his profession, sought the truth concerning whether there was in fact a consensus on the headline-grabbing issue of global warming, or whether in fact any “real” scientists actually dissented from the Al Gore/UN line that global warming is happening, is largely caused by humans, and threatens all manner of catastrophies.

[...]

This book does not attempt to settle the science, or show that humans are or are not responsible for the present warming trend, or settle what we can expect the future harms/benefits of continued warming (or cooling) might be. Rather, the genius of the book is that it shows in a manner accessible to a lay audience that uncertainties concerning each important facet of the “consensus” view on warming abound, and that the dissenting views are at least as plausible (and often more compelling) than the IPCC/Gore camps.

[...]

This book should be read by anyone who seriously wants to understand where and why substantive debate remains concerning climate change and why there is so much vitriol surrounding what until recently was a relatively quiet, unheralded, or unnoticed (except by its practitioners) field of science. If a person could read only one book this year on climate change, this is the one I’d pick.

Sounds quite interesting so I'll put this on my book list for future purchase. <- To the dork that gets worked up over my posts, that isn't a joke.

There's also been several recent reports that at first light do not bode well for alarmist global warming claims. Whether or not they'll hold up or fail as badly as Mann's hockey stick graph waits to be seen, but I may cover them in the future. But then such discussions don't seem to be allowed by some in this controversy. So, maybe I shouldn't cover these issues as someone might get a bit worked up again in their obsession with this blog and I wouldn't want to increase their stress level or let their stupidity shine so brightly again. /sarcasm

 

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Related post:

Global warming, additional resources

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Filed under: NewsPolitics

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Monday, February 18, 2008

Bill Clinton wants to jail mothers and doctors

At least he did, until he decided to kill more babies.

Just thought I would descend to the same level of reckless hyperbole that Bill Clinton managed, when he replied to pro-life protesters at a recent campaign event. Unfortunately, I failed at reaching his depth of foolishness as he also made sweeping generalizations, avoided the real arguments on the issue and essentially committed an ad hominem fallacy while avoiding his own previous views.

Watch the video here and then note that Bill Clinton used to be prolife until the late 80s and as for doing more than anyone to reduce the number of abortions, he twice vetoed partial birth abortion bans, despite the large approval for such a ban.

But hey, can't expect Mr. "depends on what is means", to fairly or accurately address an issue, even when it includes his own history.

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Filed under: Politics -- Abortion

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Sunday, February 10, 2008

OTA Open Trackback 02.11.08

As the lovely Samantha Burns says:

Please use this space to trackback your best, main page articles (I just require a link to this article, as always). Also, if you have something to discuss, it is welcomed here as well.

ADVICE: Trackback main blog page articles to showcase your work (and it will help to attract readers).

Yep, I was in a plagiarizing mood ;-) Nevertheless, it's a good way to draw more attention to your blog, so trackback away :-) I'll have one of these each Monday, because, well, I hate Mondays ;-p

Please refrain from using international accent marks in your post URL. The inline trackback script will fail if those are used.

Do NOT link your open trackback post here. Use Linkfest Haven instead.

63126210_cf86211d09_o

More trackback partys, open posts and linkfests can be found at:

Linkfest Haven, the Blogger's Oasis

Filed under: OpenTrackback

Disclaimer: trackbacks do not necessarily represent the opinions or standards of Mark My Words


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Wednesday, February 06, 2008

Election 2008 - Is staying home an option?

This post was prompted by the following comment left at a previous post, where I stated I might sit out the election if it ends up being a McCain/Huckabee ticket.

Great post... thanks! One small quibble: please don't stay home... you can vote 3rd party or abstain from voting for president, but I REALLY hope conservatives who cannot vote for McCain still show up and give support to Republicans in other important races.

Ryan

That's a good point Ryan makes and something I really had not thought of till now. Let's further reinforce this with what Mark Levin has to say with an excerpt from his post at the Corner.

"I think one important focus of Reagan conservatives should be to do all they can to protect as many Republican seats in the House as possible. There needs to be at least one elected part of our government that might be in a position to stem what could be a very unpleasant four years." (source, thanks to Glenn Reynolds)

Wikipedia has a decent round up of information for the United States House of Representatives elections, 2008.

Seems to me, that no matter how loathsome the Republican Presidential ticket may turn out to be, staying home is NOT an option. We need to vote for as many Republican candidates as we can, even if we decide to not cast a vote for President. Thanks to Ryan for pointing this out.

Let's not become so disgruntled that we miss seeing what good we can do.

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Filed  under: Politics

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McCain at CPAC, will it be enough?

Words and more words, but what of actions?

No doubt McCain will try to reach out to conservatives. After all, we've only got two eyes to poke at and he already did that some time ago. But a speech is a very difficult way to address substantial questions about his record and things he's reportedly said before the speech he'll make at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) tomorrow.

Excerpts from several sources illustrate McCain's self-created difficulties:

“He [Michael Graham] also mentioned my abridgement of First Amendment rights, i.e. talking about campaign finance reform….I know that money corrupts….I would rather have a clean government than one where quote First Amendment rights are being respected, that has become corrupt. If I had my choice, I’d rather have the clean government.” (source)

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Fund wrote that McCain “has told conservatives he would be happy to appoint the likes of Chief Justice Roberts to the Supreme Court. But he indicated he might draw the line on a Samuel Alito because ‘he wore his conservatism on his sleeve.’ ” (source)

And let's not forget amnesty. Mitt Romney was mistaken about what his ad said, but McCain did say comprehensive reform would require amnesty and recently said he would still sign the bill if it came across his desk.

“Amnesty has to be an important part because there are people who have lived in this country for 20, 30 or 40 years, who have raised children here and pay taxes here and are not citizens. That has to be a component of it.”

“I think we can set up a program where amnesty is extended to a certain number of people who are eligible and at the same time make sure that we have some control over people" (source)

Just because Michael Medved calls us liars for saying McCain supports amnesty doesn't make it so. It appears Medved is willing to accept McCain's definition of amnesty and use that to say that if we disagree we're just dishonest. Well, two can play that game. If we use Medved's method, we can easily call him a liar, since he disagrees with our definition of amnesty. He can't complain about that as we're using his standard by which to make the judgement.

Can any one speech overcome McCain's issues with conservatives who are threatening to stay home or even vote for Hillary? Issues that he has created by the way. At best, he may get some votes, but I doubt he can create enthusiasm beyond, you don't want Hillary or Obama to win, so vote for me. Merely saying I'm a conservative look at this or that in my record is simply not enough. We know his record and that's the problem. He needs to continue with action by making a wise decision for a VP running mate and perhaps noting others that will advise him on such issues as SCOTUS justices, at the very least.

Regarding the VP pick, maybe I've been listening to Michael Medved's radio show too much, but a McCain/Huckabee ticket is spoken of far too often there. I've resigned myself to voting for McCain should he win the nomination, but is McCain foolish enough to choose Huckabee as his running mate? If he does, that may be a hurdle that I simply can't clear and staying home would be my decision.

John McCain has made his bed and he now has to sleep in it, or remake it enough so that fewer conservatives are completely repelled at the thought of voting for him. A difficult task if words are the only thing offered. McCain talks much about how the nation didn't trust government to secure the border, that the federal government had no credibility on the issue. Well, my friend, you have little credibility yourself on a number of major issues. Good luck repairing that with enough conservatives by just making a speech.

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Filed under: Politics

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New drinking game

John McCain will speak at CPAC, the grassroots conservative conference, tomorrow. A good time to take a slight break from this political campaign season, or at least deaden our senses to the pain that may be inflicted upon us soon.

Materials needed:

  • Alcohol
  • shot glasses
  • Photo of Michael Medved

Every time McCain says (variations count):

My friends = 1 shot and poke a fellow conservative in the eye

Important Safety tip!

Before said pokeage, please review the safety note on this page (scroll down), to see how to do this without injuring any more conservatives than McCain and his supporters already have. As the game progresses and the safety technique demonstrated is becoming too difficult to apply correctly, a smack to the back of the head is acceptable.

We may disagree = 2 shots and yell NO SHIT SHERLOCK!!

I supported Robert Bork = 3 shots and hurl invectives at the photo of Michael Medved

It's probably a good thing that there will not be a live feed of CPAC and only video clips and transcripts will be available to work with eventually. It would be unfortunate if people couldn't make it to work over the next few days. That drop in production and the ensuing affect on the economy might require Congress to wrangle out another income redistribution, deficit increasing economic stimulus package months and months after the fact.

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Filed under: Politics

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